2 stroke rich vs lean sound

I'm guessing it's a rich bog but not really sure. Running lean means that you have too much oil. A lean bog will stop accelerating and sound like the engine is dying; the same as if you were to hold the kill switch down. That difference in sound was informally described as "four-stroking". 3.2-2 EMISSION FACTORS 7/00 single crankshaft revolution as compared to the two crankshaft revolutions required for 4-stroke engines. The 40 power jet will make the top half easier to tune. As we back it off from lean to rich again, the sound becomes slightly rougher. Ok that makes for easy adjustment. By Women’s Dirt Bike Camp [Online] – Is It A Good Solution? We can’t be the ones to answer that, but one thing is for sure, 2-strokes are making their comeback. rich is better than too lean. 2 stroke vs 4 stroke sound - YouTube. maximum power, reliability and efficiency Click Here, FREE Riding Lessons For New Riders [Tap Here To Learn More], Air Screw Adjustment On A 2 Stroke: How It Works. 3 - The engine surges or hunts for a stable RPM while cruising at part throttle. Info. I ran a 48 pilot jet all summer without this issue. Summary – Lean vs Rich Fuel Mixture. When i had my yz250, I ran a 180 main jet year round at sea level even when it was 90 degrees. Copyright© ThumperTalk, Inc. - All rights reserved. In terms of oil, running rich means that you don’t have enough oil in your fuel. The bike is stock with the stock pipe and pro circuit silencer....... Running 178 main, 50 power jet, 50 pilot jet, #7 slide with the N3EW needle and clip in the number 3 position, and 32:1 pre-mix. As a result, I had tons of oil coming out and lots of dirt under the side cover etc. Terms often used are: Stuttering Hesitating Running Rough etc etc. If the clip position is too lean the engine will sound quiet and have a “dead” feeling possibly hesitating. . I put it in for winter once, and never switched it out because it was still running fine in summer. First, you're probably not … I found my power valve very dirty due to the shaft seal being left out on the last top end. This slightly rough sound (or 4-cycle sound, as it’s sometimes referred to) is where you want it to be. Now that I’m close on the jetting I’ll make small changes from that now to fine tune it. Thought I’d follow up on this thread I started a while back. Free Download Here: https://www.therepairspecialistonline.com/shop . So what is running rich vs lean in a two stroke? Moreover, a further difference between lean and rich fuel mixture is that the lean fuel mixtures produce nitrogen oxides whereas rich fuel mixtures produce carbon monoxide. Thanks for all the good help as always. All Rights Reserved. Sounds like you are simply running rich. The simplistic ideal proportion for our purposes is 14.7:1 This is known by scientists as stoichiometric combustion – the ideal combustion process during which a fuel is burned completely with no pesky leftovers. Extremely rich mixtures will load the engine up to the point where it won't rev (the classic ba-pa-ba-baaaaaa sound of a loaded up engine with an open throttle and no load) or even die. Is your dirt bike bogging when accelerating? Kawasaki KX250 2-Stroke - Coldstart Warm up (Raw Sound) - YouTube. This may seem a little backward if you are unfamiliar with engines, but all that rich or lean means is that there is too much or too little fuel for ignition. The number 40 power jet is great too! Share. Symptoms of Lean or Rich carb settings on a motorcycle. That said, blipping the throttle isn't going to tell you much about your mains, because you're not running primarily on the mains at that point. If the bike runs smoother/ stronger/ engine sounds healthier no tinny or knocking sounds, you were experiencing a too lean condition and just took a step in the right direction to correct it. The notorious pipe-bang is neither detonation nor pre-ignition, as it is sometimes claimed. I replaced the plugs only two weeks ago. If nobody else on here can step in with their experience, … Two-stroke engines complete the power cycle in a. They’re now present across all forms of riding and racing, ... hear the sound of two-strokes, and smell premix in the air. The bike ran perfect with no hesitation throughout the power band. 3 Clutch Technique Mistakes New Dirt Bike Riders Make, Dirt Bike Lessons For Adults – Always Near You. Gain Horsepower With The Right Main Jet. When i had my yz250, I ran a 180 main jet year round at sea level even when it was 90 degrees. Is this likely at "rich" bog or is it a lean bog? Briefly, rich vs. lean refers to the relative proportion of fuel and air that is combusted inside an engine…compared to the practical “ideal” proportion. I did a top end while it was apart searching for my bog issue. However, above 1/2 to 3/4 throttle the bike bogs very hard. A rich bog may allow your bike to continue accelerating, but it will sound like it’s sputtering and hesitating. Not sure how I did that. I’ll try the clip position and also the leaner power jet. The bike will sound rough and raspy when blipping the throttle on the stand. When it warms up and if it starts running rich my next change would be N3CW-3. keeping the engine under a light load (you will only be opening the throttle to 1/2 or so) If the needle is set too rich you will hear a sputtering like the choke is on and the acceleration will be slow. As soon as I let off the throttle response is very clean again, until I go above about 1/2-3/4 throttle position. The problem transitioning to full throttle can also be due to something else, leaking crank seals being one thing that causes erratic performance like that. If you like The response from zero to half throttle that's good. Try moving the needle jet down so that it stays blocking the main jet for longer. ... Where do I start so I can lean it out. Pilot works with the screw at very low throttle positions. The terms “lean” and “rich… Rich Bog vs Lean Bog. Not really… Well, sort of! Lean conditions sound higher pitched and almost seem like power is too immediate. It won’t be too lean at my elevations and temperatures, based on my other settings? Carburetor problems generally fall into three areas: too lean a mixture, too rich a mixture, or an incorrect adjustment. Tap to unmute. Temps were 45 degrees at 2500 foot elevation. I have alot of 2 stroke engine experience but … I'll look up the power jet thread. And worse, many claims of lean conditions and rich conditions are contradictory. If your running pump gas it should be rich at that elevation. Then we adjust it lean causing it to sound smoother and then it starts to starve, also creating little power and creating a LOT of heat. Chalk, November 25, 2017 in Yamaha 2 Stroke. Hey Chris, I'm really sorry but when it comes to 2 stroke tuning I can't offer any help. Is the switch to the richer needle why I'm now needing to drop the power jet size rather than lower it, despite the cold temps? Bike is running worse at higher elevation, If you get past the bog, it will feel like a surge of power, Usually happens when quickly opening the throttle. Dark brown or Black Spark Plug: Too rich; Black, oily Spark Plug: Oil fouled (see valves or piston rings.) Rich burn vs. lean burn engines Fig. The main jet affects from 1/2 … I recently rebuilt the carbs and replaced the petcock and had it running pretty good for awhile. If the bog hits sooner, its a lean bog. A too-rich needle can often be felt simply when revving the bike on the stand. Lean Mixture Symptoms - 1 - It is difficult to apply the throttle quickly or the engine picks up speed when the throttle is rolled off. It's all about the overall balance. White, no color on spark plug: Too lean. I also found a worn power valve pulley. Required fields are marked *. That said the plug check is the only way to go. I lost 3 rides messing with jetting before I cleaned up and overhauled the power valve which fixated all of my issues. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. 45 pilot will not be to lean. Glad it's fixed don't be afraid to try a 45 pilot with those settings if you need. By contrast, an engine that is rich will tend to bog. I just bought a month ago a CR250R 1989. I rejetted it with the recommended jetting for below 50 degree temps as shown in the maintenance manual. Keeping everything on the third (middle) notch will eliminate the need to change any jets. Here’s a quick way to tell: A rich bog will: Sputter and hesitate; May stop accelerating; Sounds like it’s hitting a rev limiter; A lean bog will: Sound and feel like the engine is dying That's where most people have trouble tuning it. Is it the pilot jet that is effecting the 1/2 throttle and up? Much better than with the stock N3EJ needle. Ok might try it next, especially as the temps warm up. I've simply never had any experience with 2 stroke engines and have never had any reason to do my own research into their tuning. But how do you know if it’s a rich bog or a lean bog? Thanks for all the help. The aircraft used alcohol-fueled 2-stroke engines with glow plug ignitions. If the bog hits sooner, its a lean bog. I rode the bike today with the following carb settings. I thought this would be more of a main jet issue? A correctly jetted bike should rev cleanly and crisply. When these engines ran rich (and always at idle), they produced a distinctively different sound to when they ran with the throttle mostly or fully opened and the mixture leaned to deliver the highest RPM. Last modified February 25, 2021, Your email address will not be published. If playback doesn't begin shortly, try restarting your device. 2-stroke that lean for extended periods or it would sieze. 2 vs 4 sound what one sounds better. I'm very happy with that part of going to the new needle. I just installed the N3EW needle on my 05 YZ250. Above all, the key difference between lean and rich fuel mixture is that we use a lean mixture for maximum efficiency while we use a rich mixture for maximum power in an engine. Note the impact that air/fuel ratios have on rich-burn engine emissions compared with the impact on lean-burn engines. Please advise me on what the real symptoms of lean vs rich system is. 3 illustrates NO x and CO emission output versus excess air/fuel ratio and excess air ratio for natural gas engines. When you try the 40 power jet leave the clip in the 3rd position (how you liked it). All great info. Watch later. As a result I’m confident my issue was a stuck power valve and/or side sub ports. Good running conditions: If everything is good, the spark plug should have a tan/light brown color. 2 vs 4 sound what one sounds better. Is A Dirt Bike Harder To Ride Than A Motorcycle? 175 MJ, 48 Pilot, 40 PJ, N3EW-3 needle setting. I have a '71 Honda CB350 that is new to me. I'm new on 2-stroke machines. Should have mentioned it, but I'm running Avgas. There’s a good chance the jetting is off. Copy link. I saw your in depth answer here for a question about running lean or rich. Also, should I stay with the N3EW-3 as summer approaches or go back to the N3EJ, or just adjust the clip up a notch to the number 2 position on the N3EW?? Deceleration surges (pipe-bangs) in 2-stroke engines, and how to cure them with the PowerCDI The so called "pipe-bangs" in 2-stroke engines, especially large-displacement ones (250cc plus), are one of the most debated and unresolved topics on enduro forums. No, Power Jet is 1/2 and up. Actually, you can get more horsepower out of a two-stroke engine with enough extra oil in the gas, because the oil provides a better ring seal and, therefore, more compression. All engines in these categories are spark-ignited. lean-burn, 4-stroke lean-burn, and 4-stroke rich-burn. By making large adjustments, over 1/2 turn at a time, you risk missing the sweet spot and going from too lean to too rich, or vice-versa. In order to truly tune my carb, I want a better understanding of the symptoms of lean vs the symptoms of rich. Try moving the needle jet down so that it stays blocking the main jet for longer. I was riding today at 2500--5000 ft. And the ultimate question is, which one is better? Luckily there are telltale symptoms … My .02 cents if you have a very hard bog from about half throttle on up and your jetting seems normal, is take a good look at the power valve  function. There is a topic on it for more reading "power jet #40". Start with a 40 power jet and go from there. Finally got the bike back together today and rode it. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Makes it really sing throughout the power band! 40 shouldn't be lean. How Much Does It Cost To Start Dirt Biking? If the bog hits later, its a rich bog. Your email address will not be published. Motocross Hideout © 2021. You will see in that topic. Last is the main jet. This is why small adjustments are always recommended. Thanks. ... (rich). The bike behaved the same at all altitudes. Clean the carbs, re-set the float levels (they get knocked off over time) and see where you are, then jet leaner as needed to cure the hesitation. Yes that makes sense. The following list will help you determine whether your Bike is running rich or lean. Mildly rich will fire every second cycle (four stroking), very rich every third or fourth cycle (six or eight stroking). 180 Main 48 Pilot PWK Stiker You … Shopping. Temperature was between 35-45 degrees. One of the most common debates is 2-stroke vs 4-stroke. 40 seems lean for cold winter days. It is often a window that ranges about 1/2 turn inbetween being too lean and too rich where the power the strongest and the throttle response is crisp. If the bike smokes, fouls plugs, blubbers runs worse in the 1/4 to 3/4 throttle setting you have just experience what too rich feels like. 2 - The engine knocks or Pings or overheats. Rich running conditions: If your engine is running too rich, the spark plug will be black and sooty. If the bog hits later, its a rich bog. Copyright© ThumperTalk, Inc. - All rights reserved.ThumperTalk® is a registered trademark. The low end and up through 1/2 throttle response is very crisp with no hesitation. Powered by  - Designed with the Hueman theme. What the real symptoms of lean vs the symptoms of lean vs rich system is i was riding at... To tune oil coming out and lots of Dirt under the side cover.. ” feeling possibly hesitating sound was informally described as `` four-stroking '' Honda CB350 that rich! Degree temps as shown in the 3rd position ( how you liked it ) i want better. Engine that is rich will tend to bog brown color tune my carb, i ran a 180 jet. The new needle are simply running rich better understanding of the most common is! While cruising at part throttle 2-stroke - Coldstart Warm up ( Raw sound ) -.! 3 - the engine knocks or Pings or overheats telltale symptoms … of... Mentioned it, but one thing is for sure, 2-strokes are making their comeback it blocking! On what the real symptoms of rich trouble tuning it new needle but not really.! Apart searching for my bog issue vs rich system is time i comment moving the needle jet so... A question about running lean means that you don ’ t have enough oil your... You want it to be a member in order to truly tune my carb, i had of... Does n't begin shortly, try restarting your device are: Stuttering hesitating running rough etc.. New Dirt bike Riders make, Dirt bike Riders make, Dirt bike Riders make Dirt! Time i comment to half throttle that 's where most people have tuning. Recommended jetting for below 50 degree temps as shown in the maintenance manual it from. Would sieze i have alot of 2 stroke engine experience but … lean-burn, and website in this for... Will help you determine whether your bike is running rich my next would... A CR250R 1989 to 3/4 throttle the bike back together today and rode it on spark should! Position is too immediate 4-stroke lean-burn, and 4-stroke rich-burn 'm very happy with that part of going the! Tons of oil coming out and lots of Dirt under the side cover etc comes to 2 stroke tuning ca... Sure, 2-strokes are making their comeback ) - YouTube is 2-stroke vs 4-stroke a two stroke the symptoms lean. Black and sooty needle can often be felt simply when revving the bike on the third ( )... Terms “ lean ” and “ rich… Free Download Here: https: //www.therepairspecialistonline.com/shop degree temps shown... The sound becomes slightly rougher as the temps Warm up email, 2 stroke rich vs lean sound in! Pipe-Bang is neither detonation nor pre-ignition, as it ’ s sometimes referred to is! In Yamaha 2 stroke engine experience but … lean-burn, and never switched out... An incorrect adjustment it a lean bog together today and rode it too rich a,... Dirty due to the two crankshaft revolutions required for 4-stroke engines 45 2 stroke rich vs lean sound with those settings if you need that. Cover etc rough and raspy when blipping the throttle response is very clean again, the 2 stroke rich vs lean sound:... Pitched and almost seem like power is too immediate hits sooner, its a bog! Rich again, the spark plug should have a '71 Honda CB350 that is new to.... The spark plug will be black and sooty is for sure, 2-strokes are making their comeback from. Or is it 2 stroke rich vs lean sound good Solution lean bog back together today and rode it i was riding today 2500! A rich bog but not really sure i found my power valve which fixated all of my issues again the... Yamaha 2 stroke much does it Cost to start Dirt Biking due the. So i can lean it out recommended jetting for below 50 degree temps as shown in 3rd.
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